Thomas Perriello, US president Barack Obama’s envoy for Africa’s Great Lakes Region. COURTESY PHOTO
What brings you to Uganda this time around?
The crisis in Burundi. This is an area where the African Union (AU) and UN Security Council have all turned to President Museveni to play a leadership role in the peace talks. My current visit is intended to see how to get that peace process started.
We believe that the possibility of widespread violence in Burundi is extremely possible, and it is something that will have great human cost; first and foremost for the people of Burundi but we also know from the past that these conflicts can become of a regional nature easily.
I have just come from the refugee camps in Tanzania and we appreciate that the government has accommodated more 100,000 refugees, but the camps are very crowded and the children are severely malnourished. But we know that there have been about 50,000 refugees passing through to Uganda.
So for that matter, we think it is an important time for the region to show leadership. President Obama has put emphasis on trying to get regional solutions for regional problems and wants to continue doing so.
Currently we have three lines of engagement on Burundi; direct pressure on the people involved, support for the immediate launch of peace talks and contingency planning in case those talks fail.
And there again we believe the East Africa Standby Force (EASF) is an ideal mechanism, and president Obama has emphasised greatly regional peace keeping capacity and we are also trying to see if Uganda and Kenya will be ready with EASF to be deployed under the AU authorisation in case the situation fails into a civil war.
On November 6, you told journalists in the Burundian capital that your government was considering sanctions against the aggressive parties. How far has this process reached?
The US did issue sanctions a couple of weeks ago both on some of the worst actors inside the government leading the repressive crackdown, but also against those behind a coup attempt against president Nkurunziza.
The US has been very clear in condemning both efforts by the government towards becoming a repressive state and efforts by the opposition to resort to violence.
What does President Museveni’s scorecard say from July when he was tapped to lead the mediation process?
We appreciate that President Museveni was willing to take on the role that frankly is a bit of a thankless task, but we also have a greater sense of urgency about when these talks need to start. But then we know that we ask a lot from him; from South Sudan and Amisom.
We also understand that there is a campaign going on, and as a former politician myself, I know how much energy that can take.
So we have a great deal of difference both to President Museveni and the EAC [East African Community] but the one thing we can keep reiterating to everyone involved is that time is not our ally in this case, and so the sooner the talks start, the better and we stand ready to support any mechanism.
The spark of the Burundian crisis was the quest for a third term, something you could say started here in Uganda. President Paul Kagame of Rwanda too seems to want one and so does president Joseph Kabila in DR Congo. What message do you read here and how do talks on Burundi go forward?
President Obama was very clear in his speech in Addis Ababa [in Ethiopia] that he thinks the best any leader can do is to allow the constitutional transfer of power as a great sign of stability, and strong institutions are vital both for democracies and economies.
But I think sometimes leaders in the region over determine this notion that if one head of state does it then another can do it. President Obama doesn’t get to say [German Chancellor] Angela Merkel gets four terms so I’m going to get four terms too. He has to obey the rules of his country.
So, for president Nkurunziza or anyone else to cite leaders in other countries as an excuse to violate constitutions ignores the fact that we fundamentally believe across all countries; that the ultimate sovereignty rests with the people.
The US did not vote for these constitutions in Burundi, DRC and elsewhere, rather it was the people of these countries; they supported the term limits. So, this idea of pointing to one head of state as an excuse should not be the ultimate source of authority, it is the voice of the respective countries.
In that regard, it is okay for president Kagame to stay as long as people vote to scrap term limits in the upcoming referendum?
I think part of what that has to involve is genuinely open political space where people feel free to show either their support or dissent, and I think clearly there are people who support president Kagame, but there should be space as well for those who disagree to express their voices as well. What we say to the leaders is in the best interest of the region.
In the event that the Burundi talks drag on, with Nkurunziza and the opposition standing their grounds like it was for South Sudan, what happens then?
We have immense confidence in [Uganda’s Defence] minister [Crispus] Kiyonga; he was a tremendous driver of the solution in the M23 case and obviously is one of the most experienced leaders in the region and I think he has been doing a lot of work to lay foundation for the talks.
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